The Pickup Artist Scam

MysteryOver the last ten years or so, an industry which has been becoming more and more mainstream is that of the “pickup artist” or “dating consultant.”  The industry has been popularized by Neil Strauss’ excellent memoir, The Game and the VH1 show The Pickup Artist, featuring Mystery, probably the best known of these so called “pickup artists” or PUAs. Over the past 10 years this “industry” has spread like cancer, largely via the internet. Just google “pickup artist”, “pua”, or “seduction community” to see what I’m talking about.

This industry is populated with a host of so-called “experts” who claim to be able to teach guys how to meet and be successful with women.  They charge hundreds if not thousands of dollars for their products, which include DVDs and live, in-person “bootcamps” where they claim they will teach even the most slovenly loser to be a Cassanova in a matter of days.

Although we here at Single Dude Travel do not want to be associated with PUAs in any way, we have read a lot of their material. Some of them have some valid general points but many give terrible advice and charge an outrageous amount of money for it. In general I think that PUAs are modern day snake oil salesman.

If you are a total disaster with women you need to clean up your own act and fix yourself before you can learn how to pickup chicks. If you don’t start from a base of self-confidence and a happy and fulfilling life PUA material is going to turn you into to some kind of weird, creepy social robot. Hell, most of the PUA guys admit that they were social rejects before they found their particular magic formula. The reality is most of the guys are just selling a bunch of useless CDs, DVDs and books that all say the same basic thing in different words for absolutely outrageous prices. In my opinion you are much better off just getting your shit together (job, finances, health & fitness, hobbies, etc.) and then going out and meeting a lot of people. If you are a cool, grounded, down to earth person you will meet more than a enough chicks through the course of your normal life especially if you follow our advice and put yourself in the right places at the right times.

To prove my point let’s take a look at some of these guys. This toolbox calls himself Tyler Durden. Besides the fact that he looks, acts and sounds like a total douchebag, you have to ask yourself whether or not he’s really telling you anything you can’t figure out yourself. Besides using fancy words like “personality matrixes” (the plural is matrices, douchebag) and “irreverence lens” to describe a simple concept like “confidence is sexy” what does he really have to say? Use a condom? Don’t get fat? Carbs make you fat? Seriously? Who is paying this guy for advice?


Here is a perfect [cartoon] example of the kind of social rejects The Mystery Method often produces. The cartoon dude is trying to pull off a pickup using the advice from the book pretty much verbatim.


How about this loser, “London Paladin,” do I even need to comment?


Mehow? Are you fucking kidding me? Another one destined for hotchickswithdouchebags.com.


Here is another one from “Tyler Durden.” Listen to his lame attempt to explain why you have to keep buying his shitty DVDs, CDs and books. If these guys developed the magic method to get any girl you want 5 years ago or more, as they might have you believe, what’s the need for a new version? These guys were already supposedly gods with women, why not just keep doing that? Could it be because this shit doesn’t really work, or to the degree that it does work it only works for a short period of time until the legions of followers these dumbasses have start going out and repeating the cheesy lines and routines verbatim to the point that every single chick knows them? I’d say so. I’d also say that his comment about “backwards engineering” sounds suspiciously like he learns his new cheesy pickup lines and routines from his “sutdents,” then writes new versions of his bullshit and sells it for outrageous prices.


Last but not least you have Gunwitch, aka Allen Robert Reyes who allegedly shot a 20 year old girl in the face recently

Gunwitch

Gunwitch

The choice is yours but I would highly recommend you avoid this whole PUA scene like the plague other than perhaps reading The Game and another book or two of your choice just to get the general overview. Then again you can get most of this retarded “PUA” shit online for free…

0saves

60 comments to The Pickup Artist Scam

  • Bruno

    Hey Boris, I especially like when you’ve written: “If you don’t start from a base of self-confidence and a happy and fulfilling life, PUA material is going to turn you into to some kind of weird, creepy social robot.”

    I’ve said this because I’ve almost turned into that creepy social robot and I nearly lost myself and my true personality all as the result of blindly following a bunch of PUA material like canned routines and openers that I actually didn’t need. But I must say that as the result of me spending some time in the PUA community led me to meet a few top players who actually don’t like to call themselves PUAs. From these top guys I’ve learned quite a few awesome skills that can actually help you unlock your full potential when meeting women by purely being your true self. I’m going to touch on a couple of these skills later in my comment.

    The point I’m trying to make is that it’s good to get an overview of what a PUA is by reading a couple of well-known resources like The Game as you say but what every man should be focusing on when it comes to meeting women is just being himself, because I’ve learned that being yourself and knowing the basic attraction skills is all you need to be able to demonstrate high value around women.

    As promised earlier, here’re a couple of cool skills that I’ve learned from only a few top players.

    First, you need to understand the core basics of what attraction really is. Believe it or not, I’ve learned the truth on this not from a man but from a woman who’s a well-known dating expert that’s surveyed hundreds of women on the subjects on “What really turns women on?”

    And, here’s what I’ve learned: “Women are attracted to a man who can show them both his respect and his sexual desire at the same time.”

    As confusing as the above statement may at first sound to you, it’s actually very easy to undestand. What it means is that you as a man will be absolutely fine to express your real sexual interest in a woman as long as you express it in a very playful and disarming way because the playfulness bit in your approach is actually what helps you give the woman your respect. I hope that this makes sense to you because if you approach a woman by saying a sexually charged compliment to her in a very stiff and serious way, chances are that she’ll most likely see you as a big creep and weirdo.

    On top of it, another valuable skill that I’ve learned and that I’d like to share with you is that whatever you say to women that you want to attract must always feel totally natural and fun to you. The whole point of this is that if you recite a random pick up line in front of a woman and she gets a sense that what you’re saying to her doesn’t really feel totally natural and fun to you, she’ll be able to tell that you don’t really believe that what you’re saying to her is right or real to you.

    What I’ve just shared with you is the key to understanding why a man’s body language is such a big deal to women before they decide whether they’re really attracted to him:

    “Your beliefs control your emotions, and your emotions control your body language.”

    Man, I’m very excited to share this truth with you here on this topic because sticking with this truth is the right path to unleashing your best self in the area of attracting women. This is exactly why guys should get rid of that PUA community’s pressure of bombarding them with so many canned openers and routines.

    Well, I could go on and on about some cool stuff with the right body language skills but I think it would be a good idea that I present it in a separate post or article if you let me share it with you and your readers on your site.

    To wrap up, I hope that you’ve found my comment helpful and insightful because I really wanted to add value to this discussion on how to avoid PUA scams and all the other unnecessary and unnatural dating stuff that are preventing us to be our true selves around women.

    Bruno
    P.S. I’m inviting you to join the discussion on a popular question on what’s holding you back from unleashing your best with women.

  • James

    Hey dipshit, the fact that you are bashing someone massively more successful than you makes you look like a real “toolbox”, Maybe you should work for TMZ or Perez Hilton. You don’t even have the balls to get on camera and talk your shit instead you do it behind the glow of your computer.

  • OH

    The built in survival mechanism of PUA companies is that at a boot camp even taking bad pickup lines into consideration, they can still usually correct one or more of the most creepiest kinds of body language. The student feels so overjoyed at what to them is the 1st ever reduction of their creep-out effect on other people, that maybe they got part of their money’s worth, so they don’t demand a refund.

  • Molly

    In my opinion, some PUAs were making money out of a bunch of social retards so that they could get some drugs up their noses.

  • LOL

    You wanna know why we have the same I.P? We owned an internet cafe and it’s pretty obvious that you can’t have multiple I.P’s at the same time wouldn’t it? Yeah, we do used a faked email address as to protect our identity, and why in the heck would we used our valid email address if we were to post a comment in a website? No one would like to be spammed through emails.

    I’m done with all this as I’m not here to discuss things with a biased retarded guys that owned this website who sit all day in front of a computer who can’t even get there facts right.

    For the record…if we were a retard, we can’t figured out things on our own? Get a life you limp noodles!

    • Ok, retard, no single building has more than one IP, you can’t spell, are borderline illiterate and have a butt buddy that sounds just like you. Both of you are weirdo “PUA” stalker types. Thanks for clarifying.

      To other readers, beware of PUA stalker social reject types hanging out in an internet cafe somewhere around here

  • LK

    @LOL

    Agreed. Biased, biased, biased!

    @Boris
    you’ve successfully mislead some people here. you’ve been a biased geek all this time and had no experience in a thing called self-improvement. i’m pretty sure would like to give you a mercy fuck you inexperienced SOB. :P

    oh, why is my comment needs moderation? nvm

  • LOL

    @Boris

    Dude, your article is a total biased against the pick up community. Why don’t you go write something else instead of misleading people that being a pick up artist is douchebag move? Clearly you have no idea of what you are talking about.

    P.S
    Why is that the comments here needs moderation? Clearly, you are a total pussy and is afraid of displaying other people’s thoughts.

  • LOL

    “So if drug addicts go to rehab and the violent go to anger management class, then social retards go to pickup school”. – A quote from the famous book – The Game.

  • jacked

    whoever wrote this article is a pointless dumbass who has no idea what the fuck s/he is talking about. Have you even listen to what Tyler Durden talks about you idiot??? I have never taken PUA courses by paying money, I just started to listen to Tyler Durdens blue print, and if you call what he talks about is bull shit??? I CALL YOUR SHIT BULLSHIT!! You wrote this whole thing to ridicule some of the hard work these guys put into and be successful with women, to get some attention. Even then they dont give a fckk about your shitty article, they maybe busy getting laid with girls while you bad mouth what he talks about. Initially I was really skeptical but he never puts down women, never ever bad mouth anyone, a truly liberating stuff is what he talks about. Actually most of the things he said will only make you better with women if not a better person, with zero negativity.

    Seriously man whoever wrote this article, if you really thought Tyler Durden is a goofball for what he teaches, I swear to god you should just go die for spreading false information about his material.

    The stuff he teaches you is potent that its not about picking up women, but over all the successful person you will become. If you listened to his stuff and if you prove that he at any point bad mouthes or spread wrong information about anything then you have every right to call on it. But this is just so wrong that you came online and bash about something phenomenal thats ever created. Sure he may not sound like he is a very good in presentation but who gives a shit. Listen to the information, thats gold.

    The least you can do is to stop posting pointless dumb stuff you stupid cuntt.

  • Wolfie65

    There’s a guy here locally who sort of models himself after Mystery. He can’t do the furry hats or huge duster coats, that doesn’t really fly in this area outside of gay bars and would only get him beat up, possibly stabbed, or simply refused entry by bouncers enforcing a ‘dress code’, but he does wear somewhat off-bet hats, has experimented with eye shadow and nail polish and wears other slightly odd fashion accessories.
    He does the whole ‘projecting Alpha’ pose thing, mumbles and ignores.
    I never see him succeed with any women, and the only ones actually giving him the time of day are the art majors with the purple hair and black lipstick who were abused as children, the rest just ignore him or shoo him away like an annoying fly.
    His HUGE problem no.1 is that he’s only 5’7, which is pretty much a dating death sentence for guys (at least in the US), unless they have fame and/or money.
    I’ve read some of the PUA stuff , including a few blogs, and it kinda seems to me that the main function of ‘game’ is to give guys who do not have the social skills and/or balls to approach attractive women – or any women, for that matter – the confidence to do so.
    They will still get shot down 99.99999% of the time, but at least they can go home knowing they tried.

  • Model Railway Enthusiast

    I agree that a minute subset of all PUA material is legitimate and some of the stuff you have to purchase may even be useful. I did once buy stuff from Carlos Xuma for curiosity and a most of the obvious stuff – getting out more, avoiding neediness – is all provided for free. I find many of his paid programs form backbones for various parts of your life, and though they are useful and serve as a single reference point (instead of trawling through forums to find the piece of advice you need), I don’t deem them necessary when you can always get info from people you trust and use your better judgement. I for one get a lot of advice from John Cheese’s articles on cracked.com. In short, where I don’t regret my purchases, I didn’t really need to and I’d tell others not to bother.

    Unfortunately, a good 95% of the material IS fake and IS very damaging (unless you use it for 1- entertainment, 2- a guide on what NOT to do). Mystery and his followers are just horrible disgusting sleazy fuckwits and are justifiably mocked on cracked.com.

    I also want to go on a whim and talk about “shit tests” and why they just annoy the hell out of me. A lot of PUAs (including the more credible ones like Carlos) say, or insinuate, that women will always challenge a man to see if he’s worthy, and there’s always talk among the PUA community about “clever” ways to pass them, and then try to glorify all of the rotten female behaviours. These people also talk about how you shouldn’t put women on a pedestal and seek their approval, it’s all about them gaining YOUR approval.

    First of all, if a woman is really into you, why would she throw a pointless challenge at you when there’s a risk of losing you? Secondly, don’t you think she may be reacting that way to something, like a strange canned line? Thirdly, if she has to do that, surely she must be terribly insecure and/or a bitch? Personally, I’d never date a woman like that, and if I have to meet her more than halfway just to get with her without any effort on her part, I’m right the hell out. I don’t mind organising first dates, but I won’t put any effort in attracting a woman who is 1) rotten; 2) not interested in me (for whatever reason). Besides, if a woman PLAYS hard to get, there’s a good chance she doesn’t bring anything else to the table. Why not try being smarter, funnier, better looking or better in bed?

    Good PUA material can get your foot in the door and even aid you, but I’d say try using your intelligence instead. A lot of useful advice can be found for free if you look hard enough and you’re willing to take the time.

    AND READ THESE ARTICLES:
    http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-mistakes-women-make-when-dealing-with-men/
    http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-men-do-to-ruin-their-own-sex-lives/

  • dag mastr

    First “Tyler Durden” was the name of Brad Pitt’s character in the movie “fight club” so any dude with a made up name is pretty lame. Second I can’t believe people pay 2k for a session, I’ve never heard of such a thing and a 10k “make over” ….from a guy with a made up name…lmfao! I’m in the wrong business…ahh but I have a conscience and wouldn’t rip people off….but it’d be damn sure easy enough after watching these tool’s.

  • Julien

    Great article!
    From my experience, many guys got much worst and clueless with girls after trying those PUA artificial tricks. PUA industry is a typical byproduct of our sick society.

  • No Face

    Also realize that social interactions with women are DYNAMIC not STATIC

    A social conversation, line, opener, approach, state of mind, confidence or whatever works different from women to women.

    Some women see confidence, others see cocky.

    Some women see nurturing, others see weak.

    Some women see masculine, other see chauvinistic.

    I can’t count how many times I received a negative response to something that I did or said that received a positive response before and visa versa.

    Not every comedian makes everyone laugh. Accept that somethings will work with some women and some things will not.

    Its all Dynamic.

  • No Face

    All you people bitch and moan about this guy making money or that guy making money – HELLO ! ! ! Did you forget where we live. I bet no one on this blog / forum is working for FREE because you want to help your fellow man.

    How many new diet products are created and sold every year ?

    How many new workout machines are made and sold every year ?

    How many products each year are developed because someone recognized a demand and fulfilled it.

    Heck, the entire medical community can be called a scam because they don’t actually cure something, they only remove the symptoms.

    I know of millionaires that can’t get women. I’m sure these guys have their shit together.

    Can you get “any” women you desire – I don’t think so

    Can you get “some” women – yes, but you’ll also need other aspects of your life in order as well.

    At the end it all doesn’t matter anyway. You can do all you want and make all the choices you desire and throw it out there for the universe to decide your fate.

    You people are bitching on the foundations of what this country was built on – FREE ENTERPRISE.

  • Jim

    I have been reading alot of these repsonses and posts by some people and i got to say, some of you are really lost. Firstly a decent girl that will be unselfish is what you want to meet and screw. These so called self attraction books, ebooks are a load of crap. Be who you are and work with it, if you think spending 200 dollars on self pick up books will get you a 10 chick every single time you are really of your meds. Even those wman who are as emoitionally messed up as you will spot a meathead trying to score. Get a grip, be yourself, learn to have humiltiy, but be a man, not wet behind the ears and you will do fine.

  • Brand

    What I’ve come to know and live, is the essence of “Be desireless, be excellent, be gone”, and live with an ‘abundance mindset’. Works for me in going about my life.

  • Irrational Exuberance

    Well, my experience has been that “Tyler Durden” is probably the best PUA douchebag out there. Sadly. They’ve actually got a lot of good observations about subtle things, and the fact that (almost) regardless of what you look like, picking up bitches is all about ‘inner game’. Summed up, “bitches are attracted to guys who are confident and authentic”. No shit?

    For $2000, you basically get to spend a weekend talking shit and chilling out, sometimes watching them hit on bitches, sometimes being thrown at bitches. Certainly not a cure-all, although it might be really helpful to some people. Some of the dudes in “Tyler Durden”‘s group are actually pretty cool, and if you are dead set on blowing $2000, I would make sure to go with either Brad or Tim. The other guys there are all retarded douches.

    Personally, though, I see it as a psychological barrier, and I’d recommend therapy over blowing your money on a ‘PUA’ any day. On the other hand, there are many, many methodologies and schools of therapy, and most of them are about as bunk as a $10,000 PUA makeover.

    My top recommendation is both psychologically and spiritually oriented, and covers a lot deeper material than psychology usually does. They use a couple of different psychological techniques, loosely, aimed at uncovering the nature of ego issues, dissolving the underlying attachment (enlightenment) to uncover the essential aspects which they attempt to mimic. They have schools in several states in the US, as well as a few abroad, and from what I have heard they’re very authentic and NOT douchebaggy. It’s a little bit new-age-sappy drivel on occasion (from what I’ve read in his books), but most of the time it’s very relevant and makes sense out of things.

    My second recommendation is Internal Family Systems therapy. Their theory has a lot in common with my first suggestion, but while it lacks some of the higher-level/deeper features, it makes up for it in technique. I plan on using IFS as an adjunct to the earlier stages of my first suggestion, and I’ll report my experience when I can.

    My Final Suggestion is Ericksonian hypnotherapy. The uses of trance phenomena are endless. Just as an example, you could psychosomatically reduce blood flow to.. let’s just say a certain gaping head injury, and then use hypnotic anesthesia so it doesn’t matter whether they have any novacaine or not. The unconscious isn’t just some slave machine, either, and can actively help you with anything you are doing (including other therapy). Ericksonian therapists use the most advanced psychological techniques that exist, however, their organization has been over-professionalized and contains some obnoxious college-degree-entitlement syndrome douchebags, which is why I list it last. It’s difficult, although possible to find a good ericksonian therapist, so it’s something to do if you have more money and time to blow.

    My final word of advice, always be critical of the people you choose as therapists. Remember, there are idiots and douchebags out there in every profession, and you are hiring them, not the other way around. The more educated you are before you jump into it, the better off you will be.

    • Thanks for the extremely thought out and provocative piece on selecting the right therapist. I can tell you have a lot of experience in shopping for them. Awesome.

  • Matt

    The PUAs saved my life. Iv always been passionate about the girls I’m with. Which made it extremely hard for me to deal with breakups, rejections ect. I thought about killing myself regularly after a series of tough breakups. I was socially awkward, unmotivated and unconfident. Looking back at the guy I was before; I wouldn’t even want to be friends with him.
    Once finding, learning, and practicing pickup, I found a way out of my sorrow. Sure I used canned pickup material and tactics to start conversations when starting out. But that was literally the only way to convince myself to work up enough balls to do it. I started working out, finding new hobbies and generally pushing to be a more successful person as to be more attractive to girls. Iv sense become so good, I don’t need routines. I hardly read any pickup material anymore. It has become a natural part of my life to talk to and make a connection with beautiful women.
    Sure you can just tell someone to “be more confident” or “live a fun healthy lifestyle that offers value to others”, but I can testify, its not a magical switch you can turn on. Many guys will hear of this “magical material”, read a few books, and practice once in a while. They don’t get good instantly, they lose interest, and they tell their friends that its all garbage. It takes a little more commitment then that guys.
    I don’t have a problem telling people I’m trained in pickup, so Iv heard from most kinds of sceptics. I find most people will bash pickup material for two reasons:
    A) You’re a guy and your not getting laid as much as the average dorky looking guy who committed to learning it
    or B) You’re a girl, and you see “pickup routines” as trickery or lying and associate seduction with molestation.
    Sure theres examples of losers trying to make a living by selling seduction material. As for Mystery Method, Lovesystems, even Real Social Dynamics and others, there is life changing stuff in there. Use discretion, stop being jealous, admit you need help, and dive in.

    • Thanks for your story. We don’t believe that there is no value in the PUA material; I learned and used a lot from The Game, Mystery, and even Badboy’s books several years ago. However, their material is only at best recycling others’ work in other fields and trying to profit off of insecure guys. I think that if one focuses on making oneself better in all areas of life, the chicks and other successes come naturally. That is unless you’re dealing with American girls.

    • I like what you had to say about this, Matt. And I think you have some valid points – especially about A LOT of the people who knock pick up being stereotypical douche bags. That kind of goes for everything in life – if you dedicate your time and energy to something, people who suck at it will always try to knock you. We call these people haters.

      And yeah, everybody can learn a lot from the concepts of pick up. The fundamentals are totally solid and lots of guys need extra help in getting a grasp on those. So congrats on taking the plunge and getting something worthwhile out of it.

      Like Charlie said, reading and gaining insight from PUA material can be helpful, it really can.

      But they sell themselves like this: !!!MASSIVE ATTRACTION AND UNSTOPPABLE BANGABILITY AS SOON AS YOU DOWNLOAD MY EBOOK!!! WITHIN FIVE MINUTES OF STEPPING INTO MY SEMINAR YOU WILL LOOK LIKE BRAD PITT, SMELL LIKE CHUCK NORRIS, AND KICK ASS LIKE BRUCE LEE!!!

      They use unrealistic promises to extort money from socially challenged people. This is different from con artists, because con artists use your own greed against you. These guys use desperation as a means of marketing.

      That’s a pathetic way to make a living.

      On a side note: you may be right about Mystery Method and Love Systems…but Real Social Dynamics? Really, Matt?

      • Matt

        Ok totally valid point man haha. The up-selling techniques your talking about give me the totally same impression. And real social dynamics would defiantly be the worst of the three companies i mentioned. But I include it because the dudes who started RSD were trained by Mystery Method and they use a lot of the same ideas. Love Systems was actually Mystery Method before some sort of dispute happened between Savoy and Mystery. I don’t know the details, but it seems to me that LS is now more focused on the big picture than it was formerly MM. They teach material now that is in obvious contradiction to Mysterys ideas. My best guess is that Mystery didn’t want to change, and Savoy won in court. Mystery moved on to create a company called the Venusian Arts and wrote another book. I looked into VA and he seems to have pretty solid material. But LS is wayyy more organized. Id recommend LS over any other PUA info for that reason, and because they don’t mind changing what they’re teaching if it turns out they were wrong

  • Jeff

    Yeah me too..i’m a PUA and i go to Thailand.
    Just spread my 1000 baht and things are done.
    Nice work PUA,keep improving guys,i keep my money to use my skills in Thailand.

  • Nutz

    Game, pickup, learned charisma, whatever you want to call it is highly dependent on who you learn from. A good instructor/mentor is worth his weight in gold. Equally important is the kind of methodology employed in teaching the student. For myself, I lean heavily on Toastmasters and see Game as two pieces that have a yin-yang effect.

    A) All the stuff you do to get your foot in the door.

    B) All the stuff you do once she’s decided to give you a shot.

    A = all the “outer game” elements: Good eye contact, proper body language, good speaking ability, good hygiene, wardrobe, fitness, and so on. This is the “not what you say, but how you say it” stuff and everything that instills a good first impression from the moment you spot each other to the time you deliver your “opener”.

    B = good conversational skills, not being needy, “inner game”, developing standards, and overall just being an interesting person with a backbone.

    Both A & B can be improved with good instruction and practice. Long-term it’s all very empowering because it gives men choice and some control over how their relationships pan out. There’s no reason men should kowtow to women and put up with inappropriate behavior on their part, but many men do because of lack of choice and/or fear of loneliness should they end things.

  • Dood McMan

    The best ‘pickup line’ really is 2 look very physically attractive =) This is not hard in the USA, because it is a relative thing. Most of the guys R fat & disgusting, so if U dress nice (this means real clothes, not pull-over T-shirts & krap), & have that sleek, modely exterior, chix will approach YOU. I’m not sure if U have 2 B tall, but I am. I haven’t really researched it across other guys, but a lot of it happens with me just walking about carrying things =D So, go vegitarian or semi-vegi, no chemicals in or on your bod – will make U very sleek & magazine model looking and strong 2 so long as U work your azz off. I’m not saying grow up vegi, as I hear it makes U short?

  • Carmo

    Studying pickup can have its advantages for some guys but it’s a long journey and will end having come full circle in a lot of situations. For me, I started like most guys by reading the game but found out really quickly that trying to mimic a guy like mystery was the last thing I wanted. Also found out really quickly that using pick up lines or canned conversation starters was also pretty lame. After 2 years of consciously trying to improve this area of my life I figured out a few things. That all this pick up crap is really just a band aid covering up a bigger problem. Learn to become naturally attractive to women and there is no need for any of the other stuff. This means feeling great by exercising and living healthy lifestyle, living a fun, interesting and passionate life that offers value to others, and having a generally high level of respect for yourself and your beliefs. If you can get these aspects of your life handled, success with women will become an afterthought.

  • pua

    I’m not sure why there’s so much hate directed at PUAs but here’s my story.

    In short, learning PU changed my life. I never learned how to approach or talk to women in a way that would generate attraction and lead to romance/sex/relationships/etc. Girls would tell me I was a “nice guy” but I could never lead things further. Every other area of my life was great…my schooling, professional career, hobbies. I was a confident guy in every area of life except for women. Then I found the PUA community.

    The best thing that the PUA material taught me was to simply approach women. Stop giving a fuck what other people think, don’t be afraid to fail, and just approach women. Maybe most guys learn this skill on their own but in my case I needed a kick in the butt. I needed to see examples of other guys doing it to learn that it could work.

    That being said, I do agree that there are many rip-off scams and sleezy guys in the PU community. I never paid any money to a PUA, since most of the material can be found for free online, along with videos and everything. Also most of the material I learned and use today is from lovesystems, which is a pretty reputable company. They do charge lots of money for bootcamps, but most of their material can be read for free on their forums if you just want to learn and practice on your own.

    I will say that since learning PU, I haven’t been single for more than 2 months at a time, unless by choice. I recently moved to France and approached a super-hot french girl on the street who I’m now in a relationship with. PU absolutely does work, but you need to dedicate a lot of effort to improving this area of your life, and be careful of the many scams that are out there.

    • Thanks for the comment and personal story. I’m glad to hear that it worked out for you. I also learned a lot from some of the PUA material, but the problem with those guys these days is that 95% are frauds personally and professionally. The principles that you speak of can be taught in 10 minutes without expensive bootcamps and other “programs” that prey on insecure and ignorant dudes that really just need to get out there like you did. Read Boris’ story about Badboy’s bootcamp here:
      http://www.singledudetravel.com/2011/02/pua-bootcamp-with-badboy/

      • pua

        Hmm yeah that bootcamp story is sad. The problem with bootcamps is they’re so damn expensive, that lots of people think if they pay that much all of their women problems will magically be fixed. In reality, most guys can’t become good with women after 1 weekend. It takes an enormous commitment and dedication. I think bootcamps would be useful for the 40-year old virgin types of guys who have never approached a girl and get chest pains at the thought of it. For those guys, it can help a lot to have someone force you to go talk to a girl…even if you pay 2000EUR for them to do it :). But in the end, each guy has his own level of game, and maybe a bootcamp will help him along his journey, or maybe it won’t. In any case anyone should do lots of research before plunking down that much money for instruction.

  • Harry

    Good point. Singapore, here I come.

  • Harry

    I recently met with a PUA for a consultation. He wants about $10k for a total makeover with matchmaking as well. I’m fairly successful in my career. I do try to be a decent human being. I do have people trying to set me up fairly often, but I just want to go out & meet people on my own. I was about to take him up on the offer, but I came across this website. This is a great website that does present the “other side” of the PUA industry. What do you guys think?

    • I think you should kick that PUA douchebag in the nuts for trying to rip you off! If you are a successful nice guy your answer may be as simple as just traveling, western women tend to be selfish unappreciative bitches with unrealistic expectations.

    • What a total ripoff. Please do not give that asshole your money.

  • Persistent

    I think the PUA advice is very helpful – up to a certain point.

    Don’t overdo it and don’t apply it literally.

    1. Do study (study, not just read) 2 or 3 good PUA books and download a few free podcasts. Then go out and approach women.
    2. Do get your act together and make the most of yourself (get a life, get a job, gym, clothes, style, friends, hobbies, work on your social skills, seek out new challenges, face your fears).
    3. Approach women, flirt them, GET REJECTED A LOT and bang the ones that come thru.

    The secret:
    If you want to bang lots of hot women YOU NEED TO GET REJECTED BY LOTS OF HOT WOMEN. And to get rejected you need to approach them (= talk to them and flirt with them).

    When you start out it may take 100 rejections for just 1 bang to happen. So what.

    Just keep going.

  • someone who actually knows what they are talking about

    You are a piece of shit for slandering these dating coaches. They make money for a reason. They help people truly develop them selves. They are responsible for marriages, loving relationships, and have instilled confidence in many people (at least the ones that have open minds unlike every poster on this thread.) What the fuck have you done?

  • El Matador

    This is the last word on professional pick-up artists!!:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgsHV9FEJdU

    Hilarious yet informative.

  • PlayerHater

    Oh, yeah, the picture with the black nail polish and deranged facial expression: this is in imitation of one of the top douchebags. His name is Mystery. His method for picking up girls is to walk into a club looking completely and utterly lame, ridiculous, and mentally disturbed. He then tries hard to act cool, as though he was a rock star or something, mumbles something once in a while, and otherwise ignores the women. I notice he generally travels with an entourage, which may lead a few naive types to think he’s Somebody Important. Otherwise, I can only think that all or most females you see fawning over schnooks like this are well-paid. (Some other PUA “gods” appear to be very gay, so women are happy to talk to a new, harmless friend.)
    But I digress…the point is that your photo gave me my first (and probably best : ) as well) laugh of the day. You have perfected the insane douchebag look. (You, too, can be a PUA master…No! Please!)

  • PlayerHater

    Guys, you give me hope for the human race, especially the males. PUA is the fine art of douchebaggery with a helping of assholism. I despise all PUAs. Most of them appear to be either gay, probably living in the basement at Mom and Dad’s house, the kind of guy who was in a high school rock band that never got famous (but he’s still trying at 35), the narcissist who constantly checks his reflection in store windows, and there’s also the goth type but without emotional depth or soul. They all have the seriously mistaken idea that all men are naturally dominant and women are submissive little girls who love psychological abuse (and often physical abuse). They can’t account for a naturally dominant woman like me who loves to take the lead in relationships. They can’t account for unattractive or even average-looking people who are happy and even popular. Their viewpoints are incredibly narrow and selfish. Here’s some brilliant advice: whatever these assclowns say to do, do the opposite. Your success in life and especially with women should be phenomenal.

  • ashley

    i can’t believe people listen to these douchebags, or to you, boris

  • Safado

    This PUA material is entertaining to say the least and at the best of times I do manage to pick up a tidbit of useful information. The problem with it is that they claim to know all the answers to your romantic problems. No one has all the answers, they may have possible solutions, but those are temporary.

    If you want a beautiful, intelligent, loving woman, you have to be worthy of having one. It is like owning a Ferrari before you even know how to drive. Everyone these days are looking for quick and easy solutions to their problems and there are predators out there willing to take advantage of that. Nothing worthy is ever gained without sacrifice. One thing I’ve learned is that once I paid for those “sacrifices” (working out, working on becoming financially liberated, expanding my horizons, ect.), my “game” spoke for itself. Not only did I become more confident speaking to beautiful women, they were attracted to me.

    My confidence came from 1. Knowing that I have done the necessary work needed to attract women that were worthy of me. 2. Traveling has made me realize that if I didn’t like what was being offered on the menu here, that there were many places and women in the world that would cater to my needs. Just ask Boris, Charlie, Raul and El Matador.

    As Boris has mentioned, you will attract what you deserve. Douchebags deserve douchebags. Don’t be a douchebag.

  • CC

    Recently I read Strauss’s book “The Game” and thought it was fascinating. I agree that a few of the PUA points seem to be effective. The “Three Second Rule,” for example, says that when a guy’s interested in a girl he ought to talk to her within three seconds so that (a) he doesn’t get panicked and tongue-tied, and (b) he doesn’t look like a creepy stalker who keeps returning to her presence and waiting to work up the courage to hit on her. This tends to align with my experience: I’ve had more success with particular women when I just started talking to them, than when I’ve tried to be clever or charming.

    Otherwise, the PUA guys seem like really messed-up pricks. And I don’t doubt for a moment that their tactics work … that is, they work on a certain subset of equally messed-up, emotionally unstable girls.

    • “The “Three Second Rule,” for example, says that when a guy’s interested in a girl he ought to talk to her within three seconds so that (a) he doesn’t get panicked and tongue-tied, and (b) he doesn’t look like a creepy stalker who keeps returning to her presence and waiting to work up the courage to hit on her. This tends to align with my experience.”

      I disagree with that one. Just don’t stalk her while you’re waiting for a good entry point, be busy with something else. You could try making eye contact every so often and you can even say later “sorry I couldn’t come talk to you sooner but I was busy with…”

      “And I don’t doubt for a moment that their tactics work … that is, they work on a certain subset of equally messed-up, emotionally unstable girls.”

      Exactly, either that or a dumb girl, or a drunk girl but often one that wakes up the next morning appalled at what she did and with who.

  • Yes, they ALL look like douchebags and they all ARE douchebags.

  • Andy

    I’ve never been into the PUA scene and have never, ever used pick up lines. It’s just silly and a waste of time. I mean really. I have a job and other things to do. Historically, I’ve never been a Cassanova but I know for a fact I’m not a DAFF or a douchebag either. Every guy will go about his own way to meet chicks but for me, a ‘hello’ and/or a genuine, decent compliment accompanied by a smile works. Well, at least it works with non-AW.

    Like I said, I’m not PUA or “expert”. I’m not gonna try and be someone I’m not. There are no rules to the game or even any games. If you like someone, don’t play games. There are too many rules in life to worry about as it is. Use common sense is all. But this is just my opinion.

    P.S. Is it me or do the PUAs and “experts” in these videos all look like douchebags?

Leave a Comment